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Category talk:Primary Villains
Usage So who all do we want to clean out of here? We said this category was being used too loosely. Like someone else said, a lot of the characters from Finding Nemo aren't really antagonists (seagulls, crabs, etc.), they're just acting normally. - RaptorWiki 14:26, July 11, 2010 (UTC) :So are we going to use this ONLY for MAIN antagonists? If so, some cleanup is needed. - RaptorWiki (Ryan) - Pixar Wikia Administrator 17:54, September 27, 2011 (UTC) Can we identify who is the "main" antagonist(s) in each movie or short, so we leave only those here? :I will insert my comments below each film where appropriate. One question I have, what is the definition of antagonist? The definition I have is "the character, group of characters, or institution, that represents the opposition against which the protagonist must contend." So this isn't always the "bad" guy, but the person who places obstacles in the way of the protagonist trying to accomplish his goals. Note, I am not an English major so am probably not a good source for this. Also, we may just want to use the usual meaning (bad guy) since that is what people are accustomed to. ::I would just use the normal meaning (bad guy, evil). Anything else just gets complicated. - RaptorWiki (Ryan) - Pixar Wikia Administrator 01:07, October 1, 2011 (UTC) :::OK, I'm fine with that. Not to stir the pot more, but then should the category be renamed to Villain? I'm fine leaving it as-is, since everyone is use to the current meaning, but just from the standpoint we are probably using the term incorrectly. --Jeff (talk) 02:37, October 1, 2011 (UTC) ::::I'm with you on that, I could leave as-is or change to "Villains". Although we might want to consider throwing the word "Primary" or something similar in front of it. That would prevent some misuse of the category like we've experienced so many times already. - RaptorWiki (Ryan) - Pixar Wikia Administrator 13:34, October 1, 2011 (UTC) *''Cars'' - Chick Hicks :Yes, but at Radiator Springs, might it be Doc Hudson? ::If we go with villain, then no. :::Sounds good. *''Cars 2'' - Miles Axlerod, or him AND the Lemons? :Who is the protagonist of Cars 2? Is it Mater? If so, does that change the antagonist? ::I'd say Mater is the main protagonist. But Axle turns out to be the one that he has been trying to stop all along. :::For me, that you take McQueen or Mater as the main protagonist, the antagonist is the same, the lemons, directed by Miles Axlerod. On one side, they have created the WGP, which is very dangerous for its racers, which includes McQueen that they even wanted to kill at the end. On the other side, they have to get rid of those who could stop them, which includes Mater. Of course, in the point of view of McQueen, Francesco Bernoulli could be considered as an antagonist, but he finally just is his rival, and they actually finish with a sort of friendship.--Gray Catbird 01:46, October 1, 2011 (UTC) ::::So definitely Axelrod. *''Ratatouille'' - Skinner *''Toy Story'' - Sid Phillips :What about Buzz Lightyear? He is the one that starts all the issues for Woody. Sid is just being a normal kid (although I think he can still be an antagonist). ::Again, Buzz is not evil. I don't really think kid is normal. He is evil (from the toys' point of view) as he blows up other toys and disfigures them, etc. :::Right, definitely Sid. *''Toy Story 2'' - Is it Stinky Pete or Al McWhiggin? :I would say Stinky Pete. ::I'd agree. Stinky Pete does whatever it takes to get what he wants. Although Al does steal Woody, which is evil as well. :::Yea, I think we should include Al. He was the one taking them to Tokyo and they were trying to avoid that. *''Toy Story 3'' - Is it just Lotso or all of Lotso's Gang? :I'm torn here, it really starts with Lotso, the rest are that way just because of him. But I would be fine saying it's also the gang, but wouldn't want the category on every member of the gang. I would be OK with Big Baby and Ken. ::There is a page for the gang already - Lotso's Gang. So we could use that or just Lotso. I say Lotso, as he manipulates the others. :::For sure Lotso. *''The Incredibles'' - Is it just Syndrome, or is it both him AND Omnidroid v.10? :I think Syndrome. The Omnidroid isn't a thinking being. ::That's what I was thinking too. But Syndrome does lose control of the Omnidroid, and it poses a big threat (if not the biggest) in the movie. :::Good point, I'm fine with both. *''A Bug's Life'' - Is it Hopper or all of the Grasshoppers? :I feel the same was as Lotso and his gang. I would vote Hopper. ::Same here too, there is a page for them all - Grasshoppers. But still, Hopper is the leader, so I think Hopper as well. :::Right. *''Finding Nemo'' - Is there really one? No one is really "evil". :There might not be anyone. But it could be Dory. ::Dory, definitely not a villain. No one really is evil. The nature of some animals make them seem evil, but they really aren't. I say no one. :::Agreed. *''Up'' - Charles Muntz :What about Russell? ::Not a villain. Charles is their main threat. :::OK. *''Monsters, Inc.'' - Randall Boggs AND Henry J. Waternoose III both? :I think both. What about Boo? ::Not Boo. But I agree with BOTH Randall and Waternoose. They are BOTH pretty evil. :::Yeah, I would agree to have both too. Randall are Waternoose are both evil independently, for different reasons, but the situation makes they work together.--Gray Catbird 01:46, October 1, 2011 (UTC) *''WALL•E'' - Is there really one? AUTO would be the closest, but he's not really a villain. He's just following orders in order to protect the crew/passengers on the Axiom. :I don't think there is one. ::Agreed. :::Well, still, although AUTO is victim of his programs, he becomes extremely hard, as he tries to kill WALL•E and EVE... But it's true he isn't really evil, in some way he doesn't know he is doing bad.--Gray Catbird 01:46, October 1, 2011 (UTC) Thanks. - RaptorWiki (Ryan) - Pixar Wikia Administrator 16:45, September 30, 2011 (UTC) :Thanks! I think this helps! --Jeff (talk) 02:37, October 1, 2011 (UTC) Antagonists and redemption Let's face it: should an antagonist who ends up redeeming himself/herself (that is becoming good by the end of the movie) still be considered an antagonist? I don't think so, but what do you think? I am asking this because those characters are NOT bad for 100% of the time, and there is still good inside themselves that shows up at the end. --Longliveaki 03:54, September 1, 2010 (UTC) :Depends on how major they are.-SlashMan 04:33, September 2, 2010 (UTC) ::I think a bunch were added recently that shouldn't be here. What do you guys think? - RaptorWiki 22:30, October 7, 2010 (UTC)